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Pump base out of concrete plingth, is it matters?
- mah_basha
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16 years 11 months ago - 16 years 11 months ago #8663 by mah_basha
Pump base out of concrete plingth, is it matters? was created by mah_basha
Hi all
Please, help me soon, I am really in trouble, we are in a project for wasterwater treatment plant, I came late on this project and now implementing a design which is not mine.
however, I made a mistake, I did not check the drawings very well, which comes at the end that the pumps with bases, are out of the concrete plingth. the only easy suitable solution now is to move the pumps with bases back so that part of the steel base and the motor will be out of the conceret, is it matters so much?, to how extent can I do that?. Do I need to insist to make other concrete extension and move the pumps on it. which will take so much time and make a penality on the job. Please, help
Regards
Please, help me soon, I am really in trouble, we are in a project for wasterwater treatment plant, I came late on this project and now implementing a design which is not mine.
however, I made a mistake, I did not check the drawings very well, which comes at the end that the pumps with bases, are out of the concrete plingth. the only easy suitable solution now is to move the pumps with bases back so that part of the steel base and the motor will be out of the conceret, is it matters so much?, to how extent can I do that?. Do I need to insist to make other concrete extension and move the pumps on it. which will take so much time and make a penality on the job. Please, help
Regards
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- Jop
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16 years 10 months ago - 16 years 10 months ago #4018 by Jop
Do it once and Do it Right
Replied by Jop on topic Pump foundation problem
Pump foundation problem.
mah_basha.
First of all, If you are not a structural engineer, you should not do this your self. Get a structrual engineer involved.
This is what I would do.
I would treat this problem just the same as if I were replacing an old smaller pump with a new larger pump.
Chack the existing anchor bolts to see if any can be used. If so , then keep those and cut off all the others. Then I would place (two) long channel type structural members along each side the existing pump foundation (plinth). These channel members would be as heavy (thick) as possible and as deep as possible considering the dimentional relationship from the top of the existing foundation to the paving (if any) or grade. The channel members would be long enough for the new longer pump foundation. The channel members would have 4 to 6 holes along the sides and would be secured to the existing foundation with expansion anchors such as "Red Heads." Each end (pump end and the driver end) of the two side channel members would be closed off with another piece of the same sized channel. These end pieces would be welded in place to the two long pieces on each side of the pump. Drill the ends of the existing foundation to accept grouted-in reinforcing bars. Consult a structural engineer for the proper number and arrangement of the re-bar. Rig a template to locate and support the anchor bolts while the concrete cures.
After the concrete cures then remove the bolt template. For the other foundation bolts that do not match you will need to drill the existing concrete and use "Red Heads" or equal.
I hope this helps.
mah_basha.
First of all, If you are not a structural engineer, you should not do this your self. Get a structrual engineer involved.
This is what I would do.
I would treat this problem just the same as if I were replacing an old smaller pump with a new larger pump.
Chack the existing anchor bolts to see if any can be used. If so , then keep those and cut off all the others. Then I would place (two) long channel type structural members along each side the existing pump foundation (plinth). These channel members would be as heavy (thick) as possible and as deep as possible considering the dimentional relationship from the top of the existing foundation to the paving (if any) or grade. The channel members would be long enough for the new longer pump foundation. The channel members would have 4 to 6 holes along the sides and would be secured to the existing foundation with expansion anchors such as "Red Heads." Each end (pump end and the driver end) of the two side channel members would be closed off with another piece of the same sized channel. These end pieces would be welded in place to the two long pieces on each side of the pump. Drill the ends of the existing foundation to accept grouted-in reinforcing bars. Consult a structural engineer for the proper number and arrangement of the re-bar. Rig a template to locate and support the anchor bolts while the concrete cures.
After the concrete cures then remove the bolt template. For the other foundation bolts that do not match you will need to drill the existing concrete and use "Red Heads" or equal.
I hope this helps.
Do it once and Do it Right
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- nvmani2005
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16 years 10 months ago - 16 years 10 months ago #4019 by nvmani2005
It should be possible to design and provide a cantilever extension for the foundation such that entire portion of pump base and motor are within the foundation.
Replied by nvmani2005 on topic Re: Pump base out of concrete plingth, is it matters?
Hi all
Please, help me soon, I am really in trouble, we are in a project for wasterwater treatment plant, I came late on this project and now implementing a design which is not mine.
however, I made a mistake, I did not check the drawings very well, which comes at the end that the pumps with bases, are out of the concrete plingth. the only easy suitable solution now is to move the pumps with bases back so that part of the steel base and the motor will be out of the conceret, is it matters so much?, to how extent can I do that?. Do I need to insist to make other concrete extension and move the pumps on it. which will take so much time and make a penality on the job. Please, help
Regards
It should be possible to design and provide a cantilever extension for the foundation such that entire portion of pump base and motor are within the foundation.
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- mah_basha
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16 years 10 months ago - 16 years 10 months ago #4020 by mah_basha
Replied by mah_basha on topic pump plinth
Thanks very much for your help
I am going to use your solution with some changes, first we have already the pump steel bases which is suitable for the pumps and the driver, the only problem that it comes out of the foundation, we are now thinking to put a steel bracket support to the hanged end of the base, the steel bracket shall be fixed to the plinth by anchor bolts, later we will pour concrete to the bottom of the extended part. Is this ok.
Regards
I am going to use your solution with some changes, first we have already the pump steel bases which is suitable for the pumps and the driver, the only problem that it comes out of the foundation, we are now thinking to put a steel bracket support to the hanged end of the base, the steel bracket shall be fixed to the plinth by anchor bolts, later we will pour concrete to the bottom of the extended part. Is this ok.
Regards
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- EliutBB
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16 years 10 months ago - 16 years 10 months ago #4023 by EliutBB
Replied by EliutBB on topic Im sorry but this is
Im sorry but this is not right, I know that Im going to sound rude, but if you want to avoid being in a world of pain and misery, I strongly sugest that you follow this advice:
"First of all, If you are not a structural engineer, you should not do this your self. Get a structrual engineer involved."
It really pisses me off (this is where I get rude) when people take everything on their hands even when they are not completly sure of what they are doing. How do you know if the underground is solid? A lot of people just think that in order to make a foundation you just have pour and pour indiscrimante amounts of concrete, and that the more is the best, that is wrong in most cases, when the "friatic mantle" (is that the right translation?) is too high your trenches and foundations might float or sink.
Again Im sorry, and please dont take this personaly, but that is not professional behaviour.
I truly hope you sove your problem I'v been there.
Cheers!
Eliut
"First of all, If you are not a structural engineer, you should not do this your self. Get a structrual engineer involved."
It really pisses me off (this is where I get rude) when people take everything on their hands even when they are not completly sure of what they are doing. How do you know if the underground is solid? A lot of people just think that in order to make a foundation you just have pour and pour indiscrimante amounts of concrete, and that the more is the best, that is wrong in most cases, when the "friatic mantle" (is that the right translation?) is too high your trenches and foundations might float or sink.
Again Im sorry, and please dont take this personaly, but that is not professional behaviour.
I truly hope you sove your problem I'v been there.
Cheers!
Eliut
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- 11echo
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16 years 10 months ago - 16 years 10 months ago #4024 by 11echo
Replied by 11echo on topic WELL ...I'm going to have
WELL ...I'm going to have to disagree with Mr. EliutBB. I'm sure you'll be the first to agree that the scope of a piping designer is different, determined by which type of piping he or she may find themselves. I work in the oil fields (central Calif.) we do pump foundations ALL the time! Granted it may be cover more "professionally" by a civil person, but clients here don't want to go to extra expend of having the personnel or that dept. (which is normal here for some reason!??) ...Be that as it may, following some "rules of thumb" we design and install a number of pump and equipment foundations. The trick is knowing which ones to walk away from! IF I was in a ground up mega-buck refinery, I wouldn't even attempt to try. But that's all apart of piping designing, you have to be able to expand your talents to do "the job". My $0.02 anyway!
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