Penetrating containment wall of a hydrocarbon tank?

  • 11echo
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16 years 8 months ago - 16 years 8 months ago #8735 by 11echo
I'm working on a project where the engineers want me to penetrate the masonry containment wall of a diesel with a fill line. Now if this was a dirt berm type containment wall I know we can't do that ...could compromise the integrity in an earthquake. BUT I don't know if this holds true with a masonry wall? The engineers (young, REAL young) say "No Problem" but I have that gut feeling.
Can anybody give me some direction on this?

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16 years 8 months ago - 16 years 8 months ago #4152 by Jop
Replied by Jop on topic Dike Walls
11Echo,
In my opinion and experience both the earthen dike and a concrete "wall' dike can be penetrated with one or more pipes for tank filling or pump suction.

The way we did it in my time was to encase the product pipe inside a larger sleeve pipe. For the purposes of this description lets say we have an 8" product pipe and a 12" sleeve pipe. The double pipe set-up penetrated the dike wall or berm of the containment area. The outer sleeve pipe was long enough to extend and clear the containment wall or slope of the berm. The end of the 12" sleeve pipe at the outside of the containment had a standard 12" slip-on flange welded to the 12" sleeve pipe. The product pipe had a 12" x 8" reducing slip-on flange welded to it. Depending on the angle of repose of the berm material the product pipe had one or more guide lugs welded to the outside of the pipe to center the inner pipe in the sleeve. The product pipe is slid through the sleeve during construction and is field welded to the balance of the dike area piping. The end of the sleeve pipe on the end inside of the containment area is open.
The double pipe sleeve is normally installed with a slight down slope toward the inside of the dike area so any leaks inside the sleeve will drain out into the containment area.
For concrete wall installations a round collar made from a piece of flat steel plate should be welded to the sleeve pipe to anchor it to the center of the wall.

I hope this is all clear.

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16 years 8 months ago - 16 years 8 months ago #4156 by 11echo
Replied by 11echo on topic I've done similar type penetrations
I've done similar type penetrations doing that exact same type of design. BUT this is a diesel tank and if a catastrophic failure does occur, diesel will be 3ft deep in this containment area ...and this penetration will be under the surface at 1'-6" elev. So a rubber seal may or may not work, however this "masonry" wall is only 8" wide so trying to “cast” this pipe sleeve in the wall would be a problem, this project is in a seismic zone 4, and ambient temps get up to 130F.
My basic gut feeling is still to go over the wall or under it.

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16 years 8 months ago - 16 years 8 months ago #4157 by Jop
Replied by Jop on topic I do not understand "So
I do not understand "So a rubber seal may or may not work."
The end closer we used was a steel flange w/gasket.
As for the 8" wall I would look at pouring a short section with added thickness at the point of penetration. This should be tied into the existing wall and act as an anchor block.
Think about it. It would be better than complicating the pump suction line profile.

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16 years 7 months ago - 16 years 7 months ago #4158 by 11echo
Replied by 11echo on topic First off I can grantee
First off I can grantee you that they won’t want to do a partial pour of concrete to make a section of the wall, and then do the rest in the masonry brick. It’ll be masonry brick in total.
The problem I have with the rubber seals is two parts. I’ve seen the rubber seals that could probably be able to “buck” the solvent properties of diesel, but these were in sections and I’m not sure if it would be easy to get a dry seal with this type of seal. The other type is the type that is mixed and pour into place where it hardens. This type seals well, but doesn’t do well with the hydrocarbon solvent action. Again my experience.
What I’m most worried about (using the wall penetration) is IF there is a zone 4 earthquake and this tank starts rocking and rolling where it catastrophically fails with a 30ft joint of fill line pipe sticking thru the containment wall that it could very easily rip a good size hole in that wall or knock a section of the wall down completely! NOW if I passed the fill line piping over the top of the wall it still could do the same thing …but I’d guess it would be harder to do. However if I buried that section of fill line it would could probably survive the collapse of the tank without any damage to the wall. Just need to make sure we have a check valve on the outside the wall so the escaped diesel doesn’t start back flowing thru the broken pipe. My thoughts on the issue

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