Why are so many clients in the US not willing to train pipers on PDMS?

I believe I can answer that question! PDMS is a British program, one of the first 3D piping programs. Because it was first (like AutoCAD) it becomes the "standard" that other programs have to meet or beat. One of the main issues is the fact you can't buy a copy of PDMS, you can only lease a seat for it, and it's expensive! There are LOTS of other 3D programs ...just as good (and maybe better), but they can be bought out right. In my own area we have only one client that uses PDMS, and the only reason they have it is because their parent company (a major oil company) leases PDMS, for their overseas operations (where the Brits have had the major part of operations) ...the client here gets it because it's free for their use. Problem is they want all work done on their facilities to be done in PDMS! SO what engineering company is going to lease PDMS without any grantees of the amount of work they’ll get from this client? …This is the issue here; PDMS is not a user friendly program, overly complicate, expensive, and "foreign" (using terminology not used in the states). There are far better options to use then PDMS, and why U.S. companies tend to avoid its use! ...IMHO

11echo- part of your explanation might be true & logical except "PDMS is very complicated or it is not user friendly".

I am working on PDMS from last 7+ years & as per me (or most of the PDMS users out there) its is extremely user-friendly, easy to use / learn / customizable when compared to the other competitive 3D Plant design softwares. I also work on PDS / SP3D & I strongly believe that PDMS is simply great with enormous capabilities yest the simplest one in the group.

cj.abhijit ...When I was introduced to PDMS, "IF" you made a mistake, there was no "un-do" button! You had to determine where you ended up and then determine what to do to get back to where you needed to be! That was 7 years ago, have they change that issue with the program? ALL other 3D programs I have worked with (Cadworx & AutoPlant) have an "un-do" button! IF that is still the case with PDMS, then you and I have a different understanding of the term "user un-friendly"! ...Did you know what PDMS stands for? ...Piping Done More Slowly!

PDMS allows the user to UNDO and REDO commands in DESIGN and DRAFT.

Cadworx & AutoPlant are awesome plant design softwares but AVEVA PDMS is also not less by any means. However, started thinking why not learn Cadworx too (as this will not be a tough task for me as it an AutoCAD based software) Thnx to u!

As per me, do you know what PDMS really is? ...Plant Design More Smoothly!!

Only since V11.6, and it rarely works as a true "undo" in anything but the MODELEDITOR in DESIGN. I have not had much experience with its use in DRAFT but I have seen it completely UNDO a whole session for one user in DESIGN, not just the last command.

PDMS as with any of the popular 3D modeling programs has its faults and weakness'. I have only ever known PDMS as my last 2 positions have required its use and the firm before could barely issue a P&ID let alone step into the realm of 3D design.

I find PDMS to be very quirky, backwards in progress and yet other times I feel that it's made my job so simple my 7yr old son could probably keep up with me given the proper training & guidance

Good Morning gentleman first post here I usually just check out the info but felt I needed to weigh in on this.

First off on the training question it is usually because most PDMS houses have their own application layer that Aveva is unable to train you on. The firm I work for provides PDMS training all over the world and find most firms don't mind paying for it as long as the trainer is flexible. Unfortunately Aveva doesn't offer the same flexibility and not all firms know of my firms abilities yet.

As far as PDMS it has the largest market-share of any 3D design software in the world including the US. It is used in all different facets of the engineering world from PetroChem to Pharm to Oil & Gas to Power. It was and is based out of the UK but functions the same as any US based design solution. The mention you make on undo is correct somewhat. The only real issue is the comparison you make between it and CW and AP isn't an apples to apples comparison. PDMS is a data centric model and not a graphic based model with data attached to it like CW and AP is. You will find any true data-centric program makes it either difficult or impossible to do a true undo because of the ramifications on a database. The 12 release of PDMS has taken most of the risk out of it and the undo command works very well in design and draft now. It does take some time to learn it as it is a complicated piece of software and the ramp up and training durations are competitive with the Intergraph solutions. That is truly the only comparable software out there with the other smaller tools of course being easier to train on and get comfortable with.

The other difference being the scalability of PDMS. The opportunities for automation and customization is completely limitless and most of the larger firms in the world use PDMS and have a very specialized and robust application layer. Most of the secondary tools don't allow for that extensive a customization. Also PDMS along with Intergraph solutions are able to handle a project regardless of size, scope, or deliverables.

I know this maybe more information than you guys were looking for but I felt the need to dis-spell some of the myths out there. If you all have any other questions on it feel free to post them and I'll help out any way I can.

HEY, Thanks for the propaganda! I’ll add it to the PROCAD 3D “stuff” on viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3099
…And the 3DINTERNET on viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2019

…with all this advanced technology I’m surprised I still have a job!

No propaganda here just truth from a wide view of the industry as well as the employees and employers out there. You can't argue with the pay available out there along with the companies that swear by it.

You’re NOT right about the pay around my area! And I'm sure there are companies that swear by it, I know a number of companies and personal that swears at it! SO you are selling "training" for PDMS ...My friend, your input IS propaganda!

I am in no way "selling" anything. I was simply stating that I have witnessed many companies/individuals work their way through the progression of training and getting started on PDMS. Yes some people are partial to other software. Just as Microstation guys think AutoCad is a plague on society there are also people that are Intergraph guys that think the same of PDMS. All I am trying to state is that while some people have disdain for software X it doesn't mean that software X has a deficiency it is just that this individual is either not inclined to get on board with the software or unable to learn the software. In this day and age there are many different software solutions out there with many differences as well as similarities.

All I can speak to is my experience in knowledge and the sites that I go to. Most of those have the highest paying jobs for PDMS folks or mention it in those job posts. I realize that there are groups that don't have the need for a high end plant design tool so there is no need to overpay for a guy with software experience they don't need. Most of the highest grossing engineering firms in the world are PDMS houses so they can't all be wrong.

I apologize that through all of my information the only thing you gleamed is that I am trying to "sell" anything. I personally was just trying to help the original poster and trying to shed a PDMS educated eye on the commentary.