@hc
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September 2, 2014 at 11:38 pm #6076hcParticipant
Hey Guys,
My experience has been typically that the spec break is at the valve not a union or misc. set of flanges. This won’t matter if its flanged, socketwelded or threaded. The valve is included in the higher rating. Now an exception to this may be between a facility to pipeline spec break(b31.3 – Z662). Generally though even then your changing spec at the valve. Usually when a spec break occurs (and this is generally) at a building wall its usually a insulation/ET break only. If I see a spec break at a misc. set of flanges or a union I would automatic question it either on your drawing or on the P&ID. Hopefully this is what your asking.
HCSeptember 2, 2014 at 11:38 pm #4728hcParticipantHey Guys,
My experience has been typically that the spec break is at the valve not a union or misc. set of flanges. This won’t matter if its flanged, socketwelded or threaded. The valve is included in the higher rating. Now an exception to this may be between a facility to pipeline spec break(b31.3 – Z662). Generally though even then your changing spec at the valve. Usually when a spec break occurs (and this is generally) at a building wall its usually a insulation/ET break only. If I see a spec break at a misc. set of flanges or a union I would automatic question it either on your drawing or on the P&ID. Hopefully this is what your asking.
HCJanuary 24, 2014 at 2:13 am #4585hcParticipantThe question is specific to tapped flanges and tapped pipe caps. I should clarify that. I’m not speaking to tapping pipe in any way.
My experience has always been to use a half couplings on tapped flanges and pipe caps and this included 150# thru 900# connections. I was taken a back by my piping manager when he said it was too fancy a connection. I think JOP surprised me now as well.
Like 11echo says you simply cut a hole in the pipe cap or flange, insert the coupling and back weld. At Imperial oil it was typical practice to tap ALL blinded flanged connections with a 1 inch bleeder valve as a back check to verify positive isolation before making a tie-in in the future. Using a half-coupling was standard practice.
To use a 1″ Olet on a pipe cap for example my thought is you would need to grind out the curve in the Olet to it being relatively flat because its curved in one direction to go on a pipe. Then you would need to fill it the curve of the pipe cap against the Olet which could be alot of welding depending on size. Correct me if I’m wrong.
The flatolet on a blind flange would work fine but, I would think it would be slightly more costly because the back weld on the olet would be larger than the coupling. Plus the olet is quite a large fitting on the blind compared to the half coupling. Not really a selling feature there but, it makes sense to me that using a half-coupling for these applications just makes sense.
January 20, 2014 at 10:39 pm #4582hcParticipantJop…….Is a half coupling not also self reinforced? Its a bought designed fitting just like an olet.
January 20, 2014 at 6:41 pm #4580hcParticipantHey Boss,
I will attach some helpful links. I’ve been designing rail loading/offloading facilities for the past year so I’ve probably gone through alot of what your going through looking for answers. To offload from the bottom of rail is pretty easy. There’s a valve on the bottom of the railcar with a threaded plug. The plug gets removed and a connector similar to the dixon valve connector (see link) is attached to the rail car valve. A hose connection or loading arm connection is attached to the dixon valve. The hose is attached to your pump suction assembly. A moveable drip pan is placed under the rail car (or a permanent solution is installed) bottom valve to catch any leakage. Once everything is connected, you can open the valve on the railcar and the valve on the dixon valve connector and product can flow.
Hopefully that helps.
HCRail valve connector: https://www.dixonvalve.com/product/ATC40ASSAPI
Helpful video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwh3601eGKA[/url]November 13, 2013 at 11:22 pm #4529hcParticipantW150x22 is 6×15 for the imperial crowd.
I’m trying to visualize your plant in my head. Is this a small gas plant…..simple with some wells, a dehy, separator, pigging etc or is it bigger and more complex.
Are these supports basic t-post or basic 2 post single level racks low to the ground. Or are they multi-level over your head type racks? How wide are they approx.
For relatively low to the ground supports as I described above 2000mm wide or so, I think a W150x22 is ok. Overhead racks I would expect you would be a W200x24 up to a W250x89 depending on a whole bunch of things. I have to think your not designing a multi-level 20ft wide rack full of pipe though.
November 8, 2013 at 10:58 pm #4527hcParticipantHey LSG,
As Jop said……I go off on my own with the initial structural design. I cannot design a piping layout without thinking through structural design as I go. It’s good to hear your taking that same approach because more and more I’m seeing designers throwing piping in space and telling structural to fiqure it out.
My first question is what sort of approach are you able to take…..meaning do you have access to structural software add on’s or are you using simple 3D rectangular shapes. That will help me answer your question.
I guess my second question is….do you have structural designers at your location or are you required to do the actual structural design…..not just the initial base structural layout?
I need a feel for what your actually required to produce. I don’t want to send you on a wrong path. Also, what type of project are you working on?
November 8, 2013 at 10:41 pm #4526hcParticipantThats the other reason I know your in Alberta. It’s brutally painful so I can relate.
November 5, 2013 at 10:16 pm #4517hcParticipantI said I would be back.
Ok…..the flare knock-out can be close to the flare stack as long as its outside the flare radiation zone (from engineering) and it has the appropriate overfill protection and flame arrestor. Otherwise it is considered Process equipment and needs to be at least 25m from the flare stack.
All other spacing requirements I mentioned apply. Obviously consult with your piping lead for verification. I personally would be upset as your lead if I listened to some guy on the internet and didn’t ask the question to me personally. Just sayin
November 5, 2013 at 8:51 pm #4516hcParticipantHey Boss,
Here’s the deal. I assume you are in Alberta by your question.
Go to ERCB directive 060 page 58/59 and it will answer some of your questions. Then go to API 521 for the rest.
The flare needs to be 50m from storage tanks (flameable liquids/vapours), 50m from wells and 25m from process equip. The knock-out is down near the flare out of the radiation zone of the stack.
If I can find API 521 I will see if I can add more.
September 17, 2013 at 11:52 pm #4473hcParticipantI have…..thanks JOP.
I’m looking for specific design information. Like the rack should be X amount from a track. The rack should be X amount high. If its double sided think about this etc etc….Good design practice type stuff.
I’ve designed them before. I’m trying to modularize (lego set) one now and am looking for practical information. Thoughts that make me know I am on the right path but, inspire me to think outside the box.
I know its not rocket science, but a friendly “how to” is nice to have if one exists. I’d like to know what rules of thumb I am not following correctly.
HC
January 11, 2013 at 8:05 pm #4312hcParticipantWow……complicated answers to a simple question. It did get answered in amongst those posts, then it got weird so I will clarify.
Basically because the tank is a higher rating (300#) than the piping system (150#) this is an easy fix. The flange rating needs to match the nozzle…..so 300#. The 300# flange wall thickness/schedule needs to match the piping schedule as specified by the 150# spec. So simply if your piping is sch. 80 you would require a 300# sch.80 flange at the nozzle. Not to confused you but, technically you are creating a spec break at the weld between the flange and the pipe but, because its just at the flange a spec break isn’t required. Its built as part of your 150# piping spool with an odd ball flange. Hopefully that makes sense.
Now if that tank had 150# nozzles and your piping system was 300# then the above doesn’t apply. You can’t run a higher rated system into a lower rated tank. You would then need ask questions.
January 10, 2013 at 1:39 am #4313hcParticipant4″ branch from wellhead (Produced emulsion – oil) into a 8″ header, then off to pipeline
2″ steam startup circulation line in same production emulsion oil line 4″.Hopefully that helps
October 15, 2012 at 6:34 pm #4197hcParticipantWould have been a good course to bad I was to late.
January 26, 2012 at 5:29 pm #3804hcParticipantFW = Field weld
FFW = Field fit weldI hope thats answering your question. Feels very simplistic so I hope thats what your looking for. I appologise if your actually looking for a more detailed answer. If you are looking for more, maybe re-phase your question a bit.
Later
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